Neurodiverse Relationships

Rebecca: 00:00:01

Welcome to the Why Does My Partner podcast.

Rebecca: 00:00:04

I'm Jules.

Rebecca: 00:00:05

I'm Vicki.

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And I'm Rebecca.

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We're your hosts.

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We're also couples therapists and messy humans bumbling

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through our own relationships

Vickey: 00:00:13

every day.

Vickey: 00:00:14

We met at a training and our secret sauce is that we and our

Vickey: 00:00:17

partners became fast friends.

Vickey: 00:00:19

Between us we have more than 40 years of experience holding hard

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relational questions with our clients.

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We're going to bring those questions here.

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And together we're going to take a stab at answering those questions.

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This podcast is not a substitute for couples therapy.

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If something you hear in this podcast stirs something deep within you about

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your relationship, reach out to a

Vickey: 00:00:54

Welcome back, I'm Jules,

Rebecca: 00:00:56

I'm Vicki, and I'm Rebecca.

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And today's question comes from a listener who says, Hello, I am

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in a neurodiverse relationship.

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I'm diagnosed with ASD and ADHD and my partner is neurotypical.

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Can you do a podcast addressing communication challenges

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in relationships like ours?

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My partner wants to work on our relationship by talking and talking

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and needs physical affection all the time, whereas I do not.

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Why does my partner take these differences personally?

Vickey: 00:01:33

Before we answer, I'd like to give the partner props that the partner

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wants to work on the relationship at all.

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I feel like a lot of our questions are, like, one wants to work on it

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and one may not have that perception.

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Like, we don't know that the other one does.

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And so, awesome that there's a desire.

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And just like, bummer that there's a difference between

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the desires of the work, I mean.

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Of how the work happens, not between the desires, right?

Jules: 00:02:01

Yeah.

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Because the person who's asking the question is also desiring to

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make this better and different.

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It's just how is different between these two folks.

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Yeah.

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That's a big, that's the big challenge, right?

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Yeah.

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Is that how am I processing information?

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What feels too much for my system, what feels too much for your system,

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it's, it's going to be different.

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Right.

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Because we're going to have, you know, especially in

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neurotypical relationships or relationships where one partner is

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neurotypical and the other is more, um.

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is not, wait, what am I saying?

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In a relationship where someone is neurotypical and

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someone is more neurodiverse.

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That's what I'm trying to say.

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Um, what we're, what we're going to find in those relationships

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is that there are just really different ways of perceiving, right?

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Because like for somebody, um, Who has, like, like, there's, there's

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something called, like, monotropism.

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Have you heard of this?

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Oh, definitely.

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Monotropism is like, it's a form, it's, it's a way of getting, like, hyper

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focus, focused and fixated on one thing.

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Right?

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Like, I don't know, um, perhaps, uh, keeping a pantry really organized.

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But, um.

Jules: 00:03:17

Okay.

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That is also true.

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Also, I don't hyper fixate on neurobiological interest of the moment.

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I could spend, I could spend 20 hours in a single week.

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No, no, I could, I could spend 20 hours in a single week.

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Like.

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Obsessively looking at research on hippocampal function in teeny tiny little

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areas of like, what exactly are the cells in this area of the hippocampus?

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How are they processing information and what information is coming to them?

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And what is the anatomy of that?

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Wait, who's talking to that part?

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Where does that come from?

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That's not,

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Oh my gosh, that type of focus, that type of focus, right?

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It like, it's a drive.

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It gets you places.

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It's amazing.

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It's, it's like super.

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And also, it means that there's caloric energy that's not going somewhere else.

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Yes.

Jules: 00:04:10

Oh my god.

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I mean when I get into a space like that, I will like not answer emails all week.

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I have no idea what anybody's saying.

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I like put it down to be with my kid.

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I put it down to like make dinner, but.

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I'll procrastinate about all sorts of other things because I'll get into

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the space of like, no, I cannot let this go until I understand what's

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happening with the spatial orientation of this area of the hippocampus.

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Right.

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Wow.

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Like that's like, that's what my brain does.

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Totally.

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I just always thought I just, I've honestly, so I've never been

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diagnosed with anything cause I've never gone through an assessment.

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Um, my husband and I actually keep talking about.

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That because my daughter's recently gone through assessment and he's

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like, Hey, would you be willing to go through an assessment?

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Cause I think maybe there's some differences happening.

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So I'm in the process of like figuring out when can I actually

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make that happen and stuff?

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Cause I'm, I'm accepting of that possibility.

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And like, sure, I'll get an assessment and find out, you know, what's, what's

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happening and maybe more information about working with my brain in a way

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that really works for our family.

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And he is, he has ADHD and dyslexia and our daughter has It's for

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different neurodiverse diagnoses.

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So we have, we have quite a lot of that in our house.

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And I think that does make it different though than this question.

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It does.

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Because everybody in

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our home is neurodiverse.

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Right.

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In my home, it's a little bit more like there's, there's at least half of us

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that are more neurodiverse than others.

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But I actually, you know, now that I think about it, I think, I think everybody has

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some kind of processing difference in my home, but they're all differences.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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And so it could be really easy to take it all personally, because we're all kind of

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focused in and noticing different things.

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And that's the piece about this, is that inside of having all of these differences,

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we also carry a lot of expectations around, oh, it's You're saying this

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right like around what what relationships are going to be or how people are

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going to show up or how we work on our relationships or how much touch there

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is or how much we talk about or Mm hmm

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how people should function what should be easy

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right and and we have ideas based on a lot of like neurotypical

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models Or not even neurotypical models, Hollywood models, let's just call it that.

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Right?

Jules: 00:06:31

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, where I, I should expect you to want to be close

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to me in this particular way.

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The way

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that looks in Hallmark movies.

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Yes.

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It could be.

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It could be.

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Yeah.

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It depends.

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It depends on what we're wanting.

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Some people want it to look like Hallmark movies and sometimes people want it to

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look, you know, different than that.

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More like a 1950s typical.

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They want it to look like Don Traper, you know, to use

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another Hollywood style example.

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So, so there are plenty of people who have expectations going in about

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how we're going to do this, how we're going to have repair conversations,

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how we're going to be close.

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What closeness even feels like to you should be what it feels like to me.

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That's what we

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go into.

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But there's grief there, right?

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Like we have to focus in on that grief because, because there is no one way,

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like put any two people together and there's no, like if we can't have unspoken

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expectations and think we're going to meet each other in the same place.

Jules: 00:07:36

Exactly.

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Cause different stuff is gonna, right.

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That's a great

Vickey: 00:07:41

way to phrase it though.

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Let's repeat that.

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We can't have unspoken expectations and still, and still meet

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each other at the same place.

Vickey: 00:07:49

Yeah.

Vickey: 00:07:50

Which is what I want.

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I was about to say everyone wants, and then I realized I

Vickey: 00:07:55

can't speak for everyone else.

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But I really do want that.

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I want to not have to speak about it.

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Of course you want that.

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It would just magically happen.

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It would be so much easier.

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Right?

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Of course you want that.

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Yeah.

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That's not a thing.

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But of course you want that.

Vickey: 00:08:07

It's not a thing.

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Thanks for reality.

Rebecca: 00:08:10

But it makes sense.

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It really does make sense that that's what's wanted.

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Yeah.

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Because it would take a lot less energy if we could be met in that way.

Vickey: 00:08:21

Mm hmm.

Vickey: 00:08:22

Yeah.

Vickey: 00:08:23

Well, it also, maybe this is just me and who knows what in my

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history, um, that feels like love.

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Mm hmm.

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That like, it just magically happens and I don't have to ask for it or talk

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about it.

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Oh, for you, that's love Uhhuh , huh?

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I think so.

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Interesting.

Vickey: 00:08:42

But that was, that's new to me too right now.

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So there's that.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. Jules: Mm-Hmm.

Vickey: 00:08:46

. Yeah.

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And so if, if I have to ask for it, it's not love.

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Or if I have to say what I need, it's not love.

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it's not

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as much love.

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It's still love, but it's not as

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much.

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Right.

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So there's an expectation built in around that, right?

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Whereas like maybe, maybe I grew up in a home where the stuff inside

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of me says, well, if we're talking a lot, if we're talking about

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our relationship, that's love.

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And if we're not talking about it, then that is not loving.

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Right.

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And for somebody else, it may be, if we have to talk about it

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a lot, you're not seeing me as I need to be seen because I actually

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don't want to talk about it a lot.

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So you're not being loved.

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And I'm not saying, um, that that's always the thought.

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I'm just saying that it can be perceived that way.

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And we're saying, we're saying, why is your partner taking it personally?

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Well, my guess is the personal bit is something around this.

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Yeah.

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Like, Oh, there's a longing to have it be more similar than it is between

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me about how you process information.

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And rather than saying, you know what, that is not true for our marriage.

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We have bigger differences than I was hoping for.

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And that's just the truth of who I married.

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And that's the truth of me.

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And it's not, it's, it's not like, um, I want to be careful actually about

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saying like, Oh, let's, I don't, I don't know what diagnosis I might come back

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with, but let's say I come back and then my, it's not like I'm asking Adam,

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Oh, could you accept me where I am?

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I'm saying, could we all accept us where we are and that we process

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this information differently because whatever's going on, like.

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His ADHD is maybe different than how mine would show up,

Rebecca: 00:10:49

right?

Rebecca: 00:10:49

Because there's different kinds.

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There's the kind that get more, um, more hyper.

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And then there's kinds that get, that, that seem on the inside,

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like they're less attentive.

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Right?

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Right.

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But there's different, there's different kinds of foci, foci.

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And so part of it is about what's happening for you.

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How do you experience the world?

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And here's what's happening for me and how I experience the world.

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And here's what my needs are.

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And how do we have a conversation about this that doesn't feel too much.

Jules: 00:11:19

Right, and it's less about I accept you're different, more

Jules: 00:11:24

about I accept we are different.

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And by the way, I think neurodiverse couples

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have a leg up here because they might need to talk about this.

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And neuro, um, neurotypical couples where both people are more

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neurotypical still have differences.

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They just aren't really talking

Vickey: 00:11:42

about them.

Vickey: 00:11:42

I was just going to say that.

Vickey: 00:11:44

So not to minimize or change the question here, but like I finally realized and I

Vickey: 00:11:49

said it to Gabe literally yesterday that when I get overwhelmed and I, you guys

Vickey: 00:11:54

know this, I don't know if our audience does, when I get very overwhelmed and

Vickey: 00:11:57

unintegrated, my brain goes into shutdown.

Vickey: 00:12:01

And when he gets very overwhelmed, he goes in to fix it or figure it out.

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Which can make him very awesome.

Vickey: 00:12:08

Like I do love that part and it drives him bonkers that my brain shuts down.

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Like it is very, very challenging for him.

Vickey: 00:12:17

He's getting better at it.

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And we articulate it now, Rebecca, like you're saying, we actually

Vickey: 00:12:21

have conversations now and sometimes he will look at me very

Vickey: 00:12:24

calmly and say, you can do this.

Vickey: 00:12:26

Stay with me.

Vickey: 00:12:26

Don't shut down.

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And one time I looked at him very nicely and I said, no, I cannot.

Vickey: 00:12:30

So do I need to take a timeout?

Vickey: 00:12:32

Like, do I need to actually leave the room because I cannot engage right now.

Vickey: 00:12:35

My brain will not do it.

Vickey: 00:12:37

So it doesn't always have to be about neurodiversity.

Vickey: 00:12:40

That's just about, um, when we get too overwhelmed by something,

Vickey: 00:12:44

we function differently.

Vickey: 00:12:46

Yeah.

Jules: 00:12:47

Yeah.

Jules: 00:12:48

You know, I,

Vickey: 00:12:49

I'm not, everyone's having

Jules: 00:12:49

those conversations.

Jules: 00:12:50

Yeah.

Jules: 00:12:52

So I think it does require conversations.

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I think it also, it really helps when the communication difficulties

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are super, super normal.

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And it helps to know a little bit about what you need to ask

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for to support your own system.

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And that may require some journaling and some reflection space and, and

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even if you need, you know, somebody to bounce that off with going and seeing

Jules: 00:13:19

somebody on your own a little bit of here's, here's the needs that I have.

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And.

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And then bringing that together and finding creative solutions.

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So I'm thinking about a couple I actually just finished,

Jules: 00:13:32

uh, doing an intensive with.

Jules: 00:13:34

And this, in this situation, there was a need for, um, a really, really different

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way of bringing up difficult stuff.

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For one, the rejection sensitivity was so intense.

Jules: 00:13:50

Um, that even bringing up that there was maybe a problem or maybe even a

Jules: 00:13:54

difference in how they wanted something in the house to go was so bloody.

Jules: 00:14:01

It was too much for them to be able to do a conversation, but they didn't

Jules: 00:14:05

want to not have the conversation.

Jules: 00:14:07

So face to face was problems.

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They decided to write each other letters.

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For the first, like, four to five exchanges back and forth before they

Jules: 00:14:15

started bringing it into real time.

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I love that.

Jules: 00:14:17

Mm hmm.

Jules: 00:14:20

And that actually helped because they could read it, freak

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out, calm down, write back.

Jules: 00:14:27

Mm hmm.

Jules: 00:14:27

Right?

Jules: 00:14:29

And the freak out was way less.

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And if it was face to face, eye contact was too much and

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the body language was too much.

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So I'm just, I'm just noticing like, Ooh, we could get kind of creative with

Rebecca: 00:14:40

how.

Rebecca: 00:14:41

Yeah, we could get really creative with the how.

Rebecca: 00:14:43

And I think that that's part of like really, uh, falling in

Rebecca: 00:14:49

love with your neurodiversity.

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And loving, like, what is so special about who you are and loving your

Rebecca: 00:14:56

partner is that you start learning, really, how do, how do I attend to me?

Rebecca: 00:15:01

What do I need to do?

Rebecca: 00:15:01

Like, if I want to stay inside this conversation, are there things,

Rebecca: 00:15:05

like, if I stim in certain ways, is that going to help me stay?

Rebecca: 00:15:07

If I, um, you know, do I need to decompress and be alone for

Rebecca: 00:15:12

a certain amount of time first?

Rebecca: 00:15:13

Like, what are the things and how does that affect timing?

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And how does that affect the grief of maybe, like, the way things are

Rebecca: 00:15:20

different or the fact that maybe like touch doesn't feel so great for me or

Rebecca: 00:15:24

it feels really good for you or we have, we have these differences and we need

Rebecca: 00:15:28

to make spaces to grieve what's not the same and also trying to understand

Rebecca: 00:15:36

not the same doesn't mean that we're necessarily moving towards rejection.

Rebecca: 00:15:39

It means not the same.

Rebecca: 00:15:42

Right.

Rebecca: 00:15:42

Right.

Rebecca: 00:15:43

And inside of some neurotypical spaces and even some really, I'm sorry, neurodiverse

Rebecca: 00:15:47

spaces and also neurotypical spaces, uh, rejection is definitely something that I

Rebecca: 00:15:53

think a lot of us are really sensitive to.

Rebecca: 00:15:55

Mm hmm.

Rebecca: 00:15:56

And so that might be playing into why.

Rebecca: 00:16:01

Why we or our partners might be taking things personally is because

Rebecca: 00:16:04

we're sensitive to this, this idea of, or something about rejection.

Jules: 00:16:10

Mm hmm.

Jules: 00:16:15

So it's a, it's a complex space you're entering into and what I'm

Jules: 00:16:24

hearing you say, Rebecca, is, is.

Jules: 00:16:28

Is, is a kind of map of the how to do the, what's the principle

Jules: 00:16:33

underneath that's going to hold us.

Jules: 00:16:36

And that's actually relatively simple.

Jules: 00:16:38

It really is.

Jules: 00:16:39

Which is, there is a big difference here.

Jules: 00:16:42

Let's face that together.

Jules: 00:16:45

And read what we need to, and also create what we need to, to answer this

Jules: 00:16:51

truth about there being a difference

Rebecca: 00:16:53

here.

Rebecca: 00:16:53

Am I getting it?

Rebecca: 00:16:54

You're totally getting it.

Rebecca: 00:16:55

So that we can find us.

Rebecca: 00:16:56

So that we can, right?

Rebecca: 00:16:57

Because it's not about you or me.

Rebecca: 00:16:58

It's about us.

Rebecca: 00:17:00

Yeah.

Rebecca: 00:17:00

Right?

Rebecca: 00:17:01

And so we have to learn the other.

Rebecca: 00:17:02

We have to learn the other.

Jules: 00:17:06

Yeah.

Jules: 00:17:06

Yeah.

Jules: 00:17:08

All right.

Jules: 00:17:09

Good place to land it for today.

Rebecca: 00:17:10

Yeah.

Rebecca: 00:17:11

I think so.

Rebecca: 00:17:11

All right.

Rebecca: 00:17:12

Take care of yourselves.

Rebecca: 00:17:13

See y'all

Jules: 00:17:13

soon.

Jules: 00:17:14

Bye bye.

Jules: 00:17:16

That wraps up this week's episode.

Jules: 00:17:18

Join us again next week for another Why Does My Partner?

Rebecca: 00:17:22

We hope that you continue to listen wherever you get your audio

Rebecca: 00:17:25

and that you'll follow the show.

Vickey: 00:17:27

To go deeper, join us at one of our workshops.

Vickey: 00:17:29

You'll find our next date at whydoesmypartner.

Vickey: 00:17:32

com.

Jules: 00:17:33

Did you know you can ask us your questions?

Vickey: 00:17:35

Your questions are

Rebecca: 00:17:36

relational gold.

Rebecca: 00:17:38

Go to why does my partner.

Rebecca: 00:17:39

com to either write in or record your question for a future

Jules: 00:17:43

episode.

Jules: 00:17:43

And here's some gratitudes.

Jules: 00:17:45

Thanks to Al Hoberman, our sound editor and podcast production

Vickey: 00:17:49

magic maker.

Vickey: 00:17:50

Thanks to every one of you who has joined us for our workshops in the past.

Vickey: 00:17:54

We've learned so much from all of you

Rebecca: 00:17:55

and thanks to everyone who's reviewed the show and Apple podcasts.

Rebecca: 00:17:59

Your reviews help others to find the show.

Jules: 00:18:02

Take care of each other best you can.

Jules: 00:18:03

See you next time.

Jules: 00:18:06

Mhm.