Episode 105

Why Does My Partner Want Me to Tell Him How to Change?

If your partner asked you to tell them how they should change, would that feel gratifying or scary? And how would you react? If that thought makes you uncomfortable, we think that’s the perfect time for a YOU-turn. And if that thought doesn’t make you uncomfortable…we think that’s ALSO a perfect time for a YOU-turn! That means turning back towards yourself and being curious about what hopes or fears are hidden underneath that reaction. That will help you get beyond the strategy – what either of you do or don’t do – to the underlying need, which is how do you want to feel in this relationship?

Quotes:

“It’s freaking hard to be human with other humans!”

“Where do we learn how to be relational? Where do we learn what connection is?”

“And so where do we form our protective strategies? It's inside of our early experiences. They're not just there. They're there because.”

“If things are going well, it doesn't mean that hard things don't happen. It means that you can turn towards each other when they do.”

This episode is brought to you by our amazing sponsor, The Academy of Therapy Wisdom. Jules is one of their many educators, and because you listen to us, the Therapy Wisdom team is offering a secret code to give you free access to one of Jules' 1 hour Wise Conversations. Just visit therapywisdom.com and use the discount code "WDMP."

Jules' new book is out now! Buy Setting Boundaries that Stick: How Neurobiology Can Help You Rewire Your Brain to Feel Safe, Connected, and Empowered wherever books are sold.

Share your questions with us at whydoesmypartner.com/contact

If you want to dive in deeper, consider attending our upcoming workshops. Learn more at whydoesmypartner.com/events

Transcript
Rebecca:

Welcome to the Why Does My Partner podcast.

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I'm Jules.

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I'm Vicki.

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And I'm Rebecca.

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We're your hosts.

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We're also couples therapists

and messy humans bumbling through

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our own relationships every

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Vickey: day.

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We met at a training, and our

secret sauce is that we, and our

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partners, became fast friends.

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Between us, we have more than 40

years of experience holding hard

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relational questions with our clients.

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We're going to bring those questions here.

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Jules: And together, we're going to take

a stab at answering those questions.

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This podcast is not a

substitute for couples therapy.

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If something you hear in this podcast

stirs something deep within you

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about your relationship, reach out

to a couples therapist in your area.

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Rebecca: We also love to hear

your questions, so don't forget

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to go over to whydoesmypartner.

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com to leave a question of your own.

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Here's today's question.

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Jules: Welcome back.

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I'm Jules.

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I'm Vicki.

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Rebecca: And I'm Rebecca.

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Today's question, Why does my partner

want me to tell him how to change?

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I don't want him to change for me.

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Jules: Woohoo!

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I love this question.

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Vickey: I don't like this question.

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Jules: Wait, did you say take the win?

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She did.

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Take the win.

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She said take the win.

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Same line.

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Let

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Vickey: him change,

let him change for you.

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Who cares why he changes

as long as he changes.

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Take it.

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Yeah, but wait,

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Jules: wait.

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What if, if he changes

for me, he resents me?

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What if, if he changes for

me, he won't really last?

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Vickey: I don't want to say who cares.

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Take the win today.

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Worry

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about the future in the future

when it happens, and I say

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that as a total worry wart.

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Take it.

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Bye.

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Take the wind today and

let him change for you.

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This question gets me riled

up and I don't know why.

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I can feel

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Jules: that.

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Rebecca: Ah.

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Jules: What?

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What's happening?

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I don't know.

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But there's something that I'm vibing

here that's like, I don't know.

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I don't know what I'm vibing.

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I'm vibing something that's

Like, towards me or towards

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Vickey: the

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Rebecca: question?

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Both.

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Towards you with the question.

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Okay.

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Vickey: Ooh.

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So like, um, vibing, like I'm setting

you off or you totally agree with me?

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Rebecca: No, I think, I, I, I think

there's something getting sticky in me.

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Watching you say, take the win.

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Oh,

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Jules: that's interesting.

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Uh huh.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, what's happening inside?

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What does the sticky want us to know?

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Rebecca: Oh,

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there's, it's like

something's being unexplored.

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There's something that, that, like,

I don't know which side it is,

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but there's something that's like,

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wait, there's, there's something about

the partner not Wanting him to change

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for them and there's something about

like, what might he be struggling with

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about change that like, if we're just

taking the win, we've lost an opportunity

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to know something about both of them.

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Mm hmm.

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I'm getting, I'm getting stuck there.

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I hear you.

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Absolutely.

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Vickey: Yeah.

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Because my answer is very superficial.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Just like take it and do it.

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And you're, you're wanting

to go deeper than that.

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Yeah.

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I think that makes sense.

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Yeah.

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Rebecca: Yeah, that kind of

sums me up in a lot of ways.

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Jules: It does.

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It does.

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Yeah.

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Look at

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Vickey: that.

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That was me.

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You got stuck with

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me.

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Rebecca: Well, me too.

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Vickey: I do have very superficial

answers, and then I go deeper usually.

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You do.

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Yep.

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That's both of us.

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You do.

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That's what you do.

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I do frequently have the

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Jules: reaction, though.

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Well, I'm just noticing with this

question, this partner actually

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does want to know how to change

this partner's asking, Hey,

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Rebecca: tell me, tell me

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Jules: how to change.

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Tell me how to change for you.

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And then we're getting this

question of, Oh, I don't want.

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Him to change for me.

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So that's, that's an interesting question.

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And it's like, uh, uh, when I was

going back and forth with you, Vic,

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at the beginning, I was like, oh,

yeah, well, these are the, these are

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the things when I, when I hear this

come into my office, these are the

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things that people say, well, if they

change for me, they won't mean it.

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If they change for me, it won't stick.

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If they change for me, they'll resent me.

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Yeah, that's what I hear too.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So there's a lot of worry, but I, I see

how activating this question is for you.

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Mm hmm.

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And I'm, I'm really

feeling curious about it.

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I'm so mad.

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You're so mad.

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Where, and

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Vickey: I literally, I'm mad.

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That's what I, I, yeah, you're

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Jules: mad.

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Rather than ask, why are you mad?

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Could you ask?

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It's like, almost like you're

going to find the mad inside.

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Wonder like, oh, what's making you mad?

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Well, I found

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Vickey: the mat and it's in my feet.

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Oh, great.

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My toes are curling.

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Jules: Great.

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Toes curling.

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So can you be with your toes

curling and ask them, ooh,

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what's pissing you off here?

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What's making you so mad?

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Um.

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Vickey: Well, I have an answer didn't

come, but I see a, um, it's going to

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be so weird for some of our listeners.

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There, it's, there's a little

girl and she's stomping her feet.

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That's why my toes are curling because

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Jules: it's stomping the feet.

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Stomping the feet.

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Perfect.

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And so you're, you did get an answer.

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You got an answer of a little

girl stomping her feet.

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I want him to

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Vickey: change for me.

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Oh, gotcha.

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That's why I'm mad.

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You do want him to change for you.

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Because I do want him to change for me.

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Gotcha.

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So, for

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Jules: some of our listeners,

you are going to want your

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partner to change for you.

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It'll show you that you matter

to them, or it'll show you that

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relationships are important.

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Vickey: For others,

it's going to feel scary

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Jules: for our partner to change for us,

like those other questions that come in.

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Yeah.

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So, so one, if you're asking a question

like this in your partnership, I

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have a U turn curiosity for you.

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Oh, well, what's scary or bad thing

would happen if they changed for you?

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What's scary or bad thing would happen if

they changed for them instead of for you?

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Right.

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So I'm, I'm just curious about like,

Ooh, it'll help you get to the meaning.

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What is so, um, important about them

doing it a particular way for you?

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Because probably what's going on is

this is a strategy versus need issue.

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Can I break that down for a second?

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Is that okay?

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I was just going to say,

please do break that down.

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Yeah.

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So a lot.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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A lot of times people come in locked

into a strategy in order to meet a

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need they may not even be aware of.

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Right.

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Like, I want a date night.

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Why won't he give me a date night?

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I want a date night.

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Not even I want a date night,

but I want a date night, and I

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want it to be planned by you.

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Oh, that's right.

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Yes.

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And I want you to pick one of the, one

of the, um, restaurants we went to in

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the first years of our dating so we could

go back in time because I have a need

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to reconnect through reminiscence right

now, and I have a need to feel what it

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felt like when we were younger together.

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But I don't want to tell

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Rebecca: you all that, because I really

want you to read my mind, and I want

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you to know this, because that's how

I will feel known by you, and that

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we're really intimately connected.

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So if I have to tell you all

this, it's negating all of that.

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Yeah, it

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Vickey: doesn't count.

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Jules: Yeah, right, right, right.

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Now, I think we'll explore that even

deeper in the next episode, because I

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saw the question we're going to do next

week, and I'm super excited about it.

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But, but to stay here right now, I'm

wondering, like, if we could just

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notice, ooh, wanting him to change.

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for some other reason than

for you, is a strategy.

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And I'm curious what needs get

met if you get what you wanted.

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What needs don't get met if

you don't get what you want.

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So if you want him to change

for some other reason than you,

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Rebecca: what he's going to

change for a reason other than me.

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Mm hmm.

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Then I get relieved I'm not the burden.

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Ooh.

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Jules: Right?

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Do we talk about what a pain

in the ass relationships are?

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Every day.

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Oh my gosh.

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It's

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Rebecca: almost like I've gotten

to a point, like married for

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17 years together, even longer,

I've gotten to a point now where.

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If it's not hard, I'm

wondering, what's the matter?

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Jules: Totally.

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Rebecca: But that doesn't,

it's like, because

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Jules: Not in a bad way.

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We don't mean this bad

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Rebecca: way.

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Right, right.

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Yeah, no, no.

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But like, the hard is

like, it's human ing.

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Mm hmm.

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It is freaking hard to be

human with other humans.

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Oh,

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Vickey: yeah.

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Yeah.

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Jules: Because the truth is, you, like,

want different stuff at the same time all

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the time, and they're breathing weird,

and, I don't know, we're just like,

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Rebecca: He literally

blinked, blinked long today,

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Vickey: and I was like, I know

that face, what was that blink?

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What was that blink?

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Jules: What was that blink?

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And then he's going, why are

you such a pain in my ass?

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And you're going, well, I'm a

joyful pain in your ass, right?

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I get, like,

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Rebecca: you finally get that really

great kiss, you know, like, the one

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with, like, just the right, Yeah.

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And then you smell garlic.

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Jules: Totally.

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Vickey: The truth is,

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Jules: I was, I was talking with

somebody the other day about this

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when, when somebody was saying,

well, oh, I don't want to be.

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a burden to them.

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And I was like, but people

are burdens to each other.

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I think about it, even like with my dog or

with my kiddo, I was talking to somebody

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about, well, this person has cats.

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I was like, aren't your cats a

little bit of a pain in the butt?

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Like, of course, of course they are.

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They

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Vickey: are.

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But like, I'm, um,

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Jules: Isn't there

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Vickey: something different about

a peer to peer relationship and not

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being a burden on each other versus a

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Jules: child or a pet?

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I'm gonna hit the brakes hard on that one.

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I think, no, because

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Vickey: I

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Jules: think, like, my existence,

it costs the world around me a bit.

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Of course.

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How so?

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I'm breathing air.

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I eat food.

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I take up space.

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I want different stuff than my partner.

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Like, okay.

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Yeah.

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Like, I mean, like in a big way, like

the amount of people on this planet

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is a bit of a burden on the planet.

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Let's just be clear.

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Like, We are burdens to each other,

and I think pretending that's not,

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or wishing that it wasn't, ends up

in this underlying pain that can end

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up in feeling like not belonging, or

too muchness, or like, like twisting

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ourselves into making less of a footprint.

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And I want us to be conscious of how

we're affecting people, but I don't

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want us to pretend it's possible not to.

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You know, I was

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Rebecca: working, I was working with

someone in an intensive recently and

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something that showed up was how much,

um, appeasement was like a strategy

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that protects to, um, make, make

the other person, like if the other

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person's stuff can take up more space.

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Mm hmm.

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And they are focused then on appeasing the

other person and, is it okay if I do this?

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Is it okay if I do this?

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There's no room for them to

just say, here's what I need.

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Mm hmm.

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Mm hmm.

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Right?

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So, so the appeasement

then becomes the strategy.

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Yeah.

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And it's covering over the need.

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Jules: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Which must serve them in some way.

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Vickey: It

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Rebecca: does.

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Totally protective.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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Because like, what, what shows up as

I'm doing this longer form work with

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folks in these intensives, what's

coming is that there's really a, um,

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a core unmet need underneath there.

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Oh, of course.

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Right?

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And once we can uncover that and learn,

like, oh, how do we, like, really

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lovingly turn towards ourselves and

show up for those parts of us, then it

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actually isn't such a big deal anymore.

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Like, because the, there's

relief that's given to the part

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that needed that protection.

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And then it's actually not

such a big deal anymore to make

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those changes and make those of

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Jules: it.

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Right.

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And I was thinking to.

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About, um, this question, oh, why does

my partner want me to tell him how I,

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how to change, how to change for me?

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It may be he's wanting to show you how

much you matter, you matter, how much you

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Rebecca: matter.

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Like we actually influence each other.

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Vickey: Totally.

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And that's

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Jules: a good thing.

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I love being married.

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So being in a longterm or

not, it doesn't have to be

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married, but being in a longterm

relationship, my partner knows me.

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Rebecca: Both of you.

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Totally.

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Right?

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Maybe we've influenced

our long term listeners.

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Right.

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Jules: And, and I hope my partner

influences me and helps me see

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stuff I have blind spots to.

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And I hope I, he and I influence him and

help him with stuff he has blind spots to.

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So I think there's like a gift in here.

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Yeah.

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About, of course we change for each other.

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And isn't that great, because

that's part of our growth.

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And I could never have done it for me.

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I do it for you, because I didn't need it.

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I wouldn't have

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Rebecca: even known that it

was something that was needed.

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I had no idea.

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If

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Jules: you didn't show me.

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I didn't know I was

impacting the world that way.

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It's so interesting to

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Vickey: hear you both talking about it,

because what I hear out of both of you

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is such positivity around the topic.

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It is.

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This could just be me.

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This question, though, had, in

my mind, had like a negative.

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Tinge to a flavor to it.

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Well there was a worry in it, right?

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Yeah.

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But actually managed to flip it.

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Exactly.

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It's interesting you guys talk about, I

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Rebecca: don't why if, if like, I don't

feel like I'm flipping the question.

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'cause I feel like if the person

who didn't even know who was asking

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it, were here with me right now.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. It would be like, alright, so

they're saying Why does my partner

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want me to tell him how to change?

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I don't want him to change for me.

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Mm hmm.

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Right?

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So, so the first part that I'm

curious about is the for me part.

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I don't want him to change for me.

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But if, if we unpack that part and we

figure out like, why is that, what's

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the protective strategy in there?

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Right?

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Like

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Jules: maybe I don't want to be a

burden to him or I don't want to feel

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like he can't be himself with me.

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Mm hmm.

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Vickey: Right.

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I won't stick later because he only did it

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Rebecca: for me.

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Or he'll resent me, right?

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Yeah.

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Mm hmm.

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And, and so then if we come, if we

unpack that stuff and we come back

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to the first part of the question,

which isn't really about why does

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my partner, but it's like my partner

wants me to tell him how to change.

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Jules: Mm hmm.

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So, so now And then I'm

curious with the partner.

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Yeah.

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There it is.

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Oh.

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Yeah.

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What's important for you about

knowing how to shift to make

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this other person's world better?

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To make your partner's world better?

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Mm hmm.

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Mm hmm.

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What's important for you about that?

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And it may be that you find out that you

matter, or maybe you find out that, uh,

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he doesn't want to be a burden to you.

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And he doesn't get to have

that either, by the way.

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Everybody is a burden to

everybody a little bit.

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You know what's striking?

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In like a joyful, lovely way.

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Rebecca: What's striking me about

this, as I'm sitting with the

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question a little longer, is like

such tenderness towards the protective

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parts of the one asking the question.

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Because I'm, I'm noticing how many

people who come into my office who

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seek out intensives who are working

with all of us, right, are coming in

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with these really like, where do we

learn how to be relational, right?

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This is a question I'm

asking all the time.

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Where do we learn how to be relational?

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Where do we learn what connection is?

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What did we see?

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Right.

436

:

What did we experience?

437

:

Mm hmm.

438

:

What did we go through?

439

:

And so where do we form

these protective strategies?

440

:

It's inside of those early experiences.

441

:

They're not just there.

442

:

They're there because.

443

:

Mm

444

:

Jules: hmm.

445

:

Yeah.

446

:

So it could be like That's

a great way to phrase it.

447

:

I watched my mom ask my dad to change

for her and he could never do it right.

448

:

And she was only complaining all the time.

449

:

And I just don't want a relationship like

450

:

Rebecca: that.

451

:

Or even, things weren't okay for me

when I was a kid and I kept asking

452

:

for what I needed and everyone

just told me I was too much.

453

:

Jules: Right.

454

:

And now I don't want to be too much.

455

:

I don't want to drive anyone away.

456

:

So I really need to not say out

loud what I need, because I learned

457

:

that was scary and bad and would

leave me, end up with me left alone.

458

:

Mm

459

:

Rebecca: hmm.

460

:

Yeah.

461

:

And, and here, if your partner is actually

going to change and want to know, want

462

:

your input on that, then this other

crazy scary thing is going to happen.

463

:

Because now you're actually having

the possibility of a relationship

464

:

where your protective system takes a

465

:

Jules: rest.

466

:

Oof.

467

:

Which is vulnerable.

468

:

Yeah.

469

:

Yeah.

470

:

Yeah.

471

:

And we don't want to miss how

scary that can be and vulnerability

472

:

by its nature is scary.

473

:

We're not going to have, well, how

can it, I, sometimes I have people

474

:

come in and they'll ask me, Oh,

Jules, how can you help me, um, feel

475

:

safe, um, while I'm being vulnerable?

476

:

I'm like, Oh, that's not a thing.

477

:

Vickey: Oh, yeah.

478

:

Not a thing.

479

:

Oh, yeah.

480

:

Jules: I can't do that because

vulnerability by nature is scary because

481

:

there's, there's a risk involved.

482

:

Rebecca: Yeah.

483

:

It's like when people ask me, how do I set

boundaries without disappointing people?

484

:

Oh,

485

:

Jules: you don't.

486

:

You don't do that.

487

:

You don't do that.

488

:

That's not a thing.

489

:

That's not a thing.

490

:

Yeah.

491

:

That's not a thing.

492

:

Um, yeah.

493

:

Yeah.

494

:

So there's this, I'm, I'm, as I'm sitting

with this, you know, what I'm thinking

495

:

about is how our listeners could take

this question, if it's a question your

496

:

relationship is holding and turn it

into a growth conversation between you.

497

:

Yeah.

498

:

And some of that would be being really

curious with each other about, Oh, well,

499

:

if you got the thing you're looking for

strategy, Oh, what would change for you?

500

:

What would get met?

501

:

That's not met.

502

:

Now you just dropped down to your need.

503

:

You could also do it.

504

:

Ooh, what's scary?

505

:

Your bad thing might happen if it doesn't

happen that way, if it happens this

506

:

other way that you're trying to avoid.

507

:

Oh, you're going to drop down

into those tender spaces.

508

:

So this could lead to a really beautiful

depth conversation where you get to know

509

:

each other a little bit better and find

out what's true for your partner and, and

510

:

maybe share some vulnerability yourself.

511

:

I'm kind of hoping you do.

512

:

Yeah, that would be great.

513

:

It sounds wonderful

the way you phrased it.

514

:

I put hard things in pretty packages.

515

:

You do.

516

:

Vickey: That's very true.

517

:

There's my pretty bow on that, but it's

518

:

Rebecca: true.

519

:

But it's, it's actually because I think

as, as we get deeper into like, what

520

:

does it mean to be in relationship?

521

:

What is connection really?

522

:

What, what are Our partnerships, right?

523

:

It's, it's like, it's like a sandbox to

work through the hard things together.

524

:

And here you have a partner who like,

maybe if things are going well, it doesn't

525

:

mean that hard things don't happen.

526

:

It means that you can turn

towards each other when they do.

527

:

Yeah.

528

:

Jules: Right.

529

:

That is such a great

space to end on, I think.

530

:

It doesn't mean hard things don't

happen, it means you can turn

531

:

towards each other when they do.

532

:

Yeah.

533

:

Mm hmm.

534

:

Rebecca: All right.

535

:

Take care, y'all.

536

:

Bye bye.

537

:

Bye.

538

:

Jules: Bye.

539

:

That wraps up this week's episode.

540

:

Join us again next week for another.

541

:

Why does my partner?

542

:

We hope

543

:

Rebecca: that you continue to

listen wherever you get your audio

544

:

and that you'll follow the show

545

:

Vickey: to go deeper.

546

:

Join us at one of our workshops.

547

:

You'll find our next date

at why does my partner.

548

:

com.

549

:

Jules: Did you know, you

can ask us your questions.

550

:

Vickey: Your questions are relational

551

:

Rebecca: gold.

552

:

Go to why does my partner.

553

:

com to either write in or record your

554

:

Jules: question for a future episode.

555

:

And here's some gratitudes.

556

:

Thanks to Al Hubberman, our sound editor

and podcast production magic maker.

557

:

Vickey: Thanks to every one of you who has

joined us for our workshops in the past.

558

:

We've learned so much from all of you

559

:

Rebecca: and thanks to everyone who's

reviewed the show and Apple podcasts.

560

:

Your reviews help others to find the show.

561

:

Jules: Take care of each other

562

:

Vickey: best you can.

563

:

See you next

564

:

Jules: time.

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About the Podcast

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Why Does My Partner
Answering questions from people who want help in relationships.

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Jules Shore

Jules Shore

Juliane Taylor Shore LMFT, LPC, SEP specializes in trauma recovery and relational health. She has worked with couples and adults in her private practice in Austin, TX since 2009. She teaches Interpersonal Neurobiology to her interns, at local universities, and privately. When she's not working, Jules spends time in the hill country and with her husband, daughter, and dog. Learn more about Jules’ teachings at cleariskind.com
Profile picture for rebecca wong

rebecca wong

Rebecca Wong LCSWR, SEP has been practicing psychotherapy since 2003, blending modalities for relational trauma healing. She maintains a private practice in New Paltz, NY on unceded Lenapehoking land where she reside with her husband, their teens, and a handful of four-legged furry mischief-makers. Rebecca works virtually with people in the states of New York, Colorado, and Massachusetts. She also offers relationship intensives, experiential workshops. Learn more about Rebecca’s work and podcasts at connectfulness.com
Profile picture for Vickey Easa

Vickey Easa

Vickey Easa LICSW has been a therapist since 2008, adding in Relational Life Therapy in 2016. She loves spreading the information of Relational Health to anyone who will listen; professionally AND personally. She sees adults, both individuals, and couples, and recently began public speaking on the topic of Healthy Self Esteem. No pets yet; her husband, two children, and watching TV keep her busy enough. Learn more about Vickey’s work at vickeyeasa.com